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    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2009
     

    It is quite laughable reading your lengthy reply trying to

    justify your sport. Nature is a wonderful thing & does not need

    mans interference & I for one respect that. Bring in the wolves to

    keep the deer population down. Much better than the likes of you.

    I'm not saying anymore on the subject because your comments are

    upsetting me so much.

    • CommentAuthoreiguoc
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2009
     

    I can understand hunting for the Innuits & for people that live way up in Northern Canada,Alaska, North West Territories or anywhere else  that is no readily available stores. At least I know they don't waste a single piece of said animal. Everything is used. My thoughts. That's it, no arguements. Each to his own I say.

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2009
     

    My comments upset you? How do you think I feel?  You openly criticize me for doing something that you do not even understand the concept of. You say that we should bring in wolves to reduce deer populations....that seems a bit ignorant. First off, that IS man man interferring with nature. You realize that, right? Second off, there would be far too many undesired effects. I dont think I need to mention the incident where your idea was attempted previously. Lastly, why do you say that hunting is too much "interference" from man? We are doing the same thing as the wolves you mentioned earlier.Dont you think that people should be able to take part in the food chain in such ways that we too can benefeit from our environment? Or do you believe that animals should take dominion over people, and that man should just shrink to the bottom of the food chain with the rabbits? We are a part of this ecosystem, so shouldnt we enjoy the benefeits just as other predators do? That seems to make sense to me. Also, Im not "justifying" or defending hunting. It needs no defense or justification. It is what it is and no matter how hard some may try to prove it injust, there will always be a chosen few of us who live off the land, and posess a deep love,respect, and appreciation for wildlife.

    eiguoc, I respect your standpoint. Its easy to assume that todays hunting in the states is all about sport and ego. Some hunting is like that, I wont hide it. Personally, I look down on hunters who see it that way. However,  for the majority,that couldnt be farther from the truth. Its part of our heritage. Not only that, but hunters in the U.S. take just as much care in ensuring that we use everything that we can, and that we take no more than we need. No, we may not make all of our clothes from hides, and we may not use sinew as string, but even still, very little goes unused.

    Guess I just wrote another laughable, lengthy response, huh Squirrel?

    • CommentAuthoreiguoc
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2009
     

    If for some reason the economy went completely haywire, & living in the city was too dangerous we wouldn't think twice on heading up north with our survival book, prospectors tent &  hunting to survive. I don't mind if people hunt to stock up their freezer, it's the rich sport hunters who do it for kicks that irks me. I also hate it when someone shoves their photos in my face of a kill they made when they know it bothers me to look at it. Some animals do have to be culled, ie, hunting. Isn't hunting regulated anyway? Allowed only a certain amount. I don't think people are allowed to go shooting animals willy nilly when ever they feel like it. If a certain animal population gets too large, starvation, then they can outnumber another animals habitat who in turn will starve. And I wasn't going to say anything moreEmbarassed

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2009
     

    Im with you on people who go "buy" an animal to shoot and call it hunting. That bothers me, and the majority of other hunters agree too. Most of us preach and practice fair chase hunting.

    Your right, hunting is regulated, and very strictly thatnks to Teddy Roosevelt. That is when hunting became perhaps THE MOST beneficial thing that man has done for wildlife. Each year DNR monitors animal populations, as well as harvest records. Bag limits for the following year are then set by those basis.Only nuisance animals (such as coyotes,hogs,beavers, and other animals that cause property or agricultural damage) are hunted openly with little to no regulation.

    • CommentAuthoreiguoc
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2009
     

    I feel sorry for the "nuisance" animals. They are basically a nuisance because we are taking over their territory. A coyote in Toronto beaches area has been jumping fences & grabbing cats & dogs. They were debating on killing or darting it & sending it to a new location. Haven't heard anything yet about that. A few more acres are under developement. I always have had this bizzare thought. What if the animals all get together & decide that humans need to be culled. We are the ones getting over populated. Sad isn't it. I'm so glad that there are areas that will not allow new subdivisions, Like anything the the Oak Ridges Morain in Ontario. It's very well protected. Governments that go out of their way to protect natural areas, I like

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2009 edited
     

    It is sad that it has come to taking out certain species of wildlife,unmonitored, just because its deemed necassary by some people. In some cases I feel that it is necassary, as in animals that have extremely high populations and cause agricultural damage, but as far as coyotes eating peoples cats and dogs...I pity the yotes. Their food source is diminished due to loss of habitat, so they take on a new food source...just so happens that "fluffy the cat" is the next best thing to a rabbit.If city dwellers would understand the concept of living in co-op with animal populations, there would be far less animals considered nuisances. Thing is, its only going to get worse... because as of right now...there are no means of population control for humans.Im not saying we need a quota hunt for people, just saying that if the concepts we have on wildlife populations are applied to the human poulation...were screwed. What Im afraid of is that when we get far enough over the carrying capacity, we'll be like the once overly populated deer, and we'll encounter a mass reduction by disease or god knows what other means.

    • CommentAuthoreiguoc
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2009
     

    Where I live Scarborough, which is part of the GTA(Greater Toronto Area)there is one of Canadas largest urban parks. I can see it from my balcony. There are a hefty number of deer there. One winter when I was standing in hip deep snow with my cameras in the forest area behind the collage campas I managed to get 11 deer in one pic. When I walk in Morningside Park around 7AM, I see them every morning then nothing for a good stretch. I've seen coyotes, a family of 7 at a distance, no camera & I had my cat in a front pack with me.  Each time I've seen one it takes one look & it's gone. I would love to get a good pic of one. The coyote's look healthy, well fed. lots of rabbits & probably a deer or two

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2009
     

    Sound like heaven eiguoc :)

    I feed a few foxes in my back garden & I even had a badger come in once or twice. But coyote's are something else.

    • CommentAuthoreiguoc
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2009
     

    We used to have fixes around here too, but then there was this flood in summer of /05 that flooded the park. The den was wiped out. Then the Ontario government in all its wisdom decided to drop rabies pellets for the raccoons & whatnot. Well, the pellets caused bad cases of mange in the foxes. I saw one up north while we were camping & he looked very sick, fur missing. I saw one for the first time last year again & he looked very sleek & healthy. I hope they make a comeback if the coyotes don't have them all for dinner.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2009
     

    Rabies pellets ??? How nasty & irresponsible. Sad how some people see foxes, squirrels, raccoons etc. as vermin/pests. I picked up a baby rabbit once that had myxomatosis ; the local RSPCA had to put it to sleep. :( Best thing though. I hate to see any animal suffering.

  1.  

    I hate to get in on this one BUT there is nothing more i love than wild life besides getting kids and other people in to wild life.I am a hunter.I don't belive killing anything for no reason at all.Anything I harvest I eat.And I will NOT harvest young animals.As far as killing Fox , Raccoons , Bobcats  and etc... Is not my thing!! Wild life looks better in the wild than on a wall!!...Now dont get me wrong but if i harvest a nice size , old buck it will end up on the wall but ALL the meat will be eattin by my famliy.Killing for no reason is unhuman like!!! As far as fish I am the same way. Catch and Release. I will keep fish from time to time BUT they will end up on a dinner plate. Everybody has thier on views but wild life is AWESOME! And i rather eat something i harvested in the wild than something from a store cause what i am harvesting is feeding off the wild such as berries , corn , and etc... They are living life as they should and not being fed something they shouldnt eat. Where I am getting to is eat what you harvest and no reason to kill something for no reason at all. Remember the food chain!!! ALL animals help other animals in one way or another.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2009
     

    I find it interesting that the word you use for killing is harvesting ! Not my idea of harvesting at all.

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2009
     

    Squirrel, there are many politically correct terms we use to try to avoid upsetting people like you. Do mind explaing to me why its not harvesting though? Say I walk out in my garden, and pluck a tomatoe off the vine. I have just harvested, killed, or removed an element of nature in order for ME to have something to eat. How is hunting any different? I sit in the stand, then with any blessing, I kill,harvest, or remove an animal, also an element of nature, that is to be used for the purpose of my and my family's consumption. Seems to be pretty basic.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2009
     

    I know all about harvesting crops Travis.

    I just find it strange that you hunters use the same word for killing animals that's all. To each there own.

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2009
     

    You avoided my question.

    Whats the difference?

     

    • CommentAuthoreiguoc
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2009
     

    ABout that coyote in the beaches area of Toronto. One group wants to leave him there, I agree, another wants him gone. TV news said that they hired a trapper to get it. Now, is he going to trap it aand release farther north or is he going to use a trap that kills it.

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2009
     

    The trapper will most likely use a foot hold trap to avoid harming any non-target species, so the coyote wont be killed,or injured by the trap. However, the trapper MAY dispatch the animal, depending on local laws. Around here its illegal to relocate certain species such as raccoons and foxes, due to the high probability of spreading rabies.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2009
     

    I hope they don't manage to trap the coyote.

    er, what WAS the question Travis !

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2009
     

    Again...in your mind, how is hunting so different from harvesting a crop?

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2009
     

    Yawn............let me think. I will answer that one when I feel like it.

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2009
     

    Take your time thinking on it.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2009
     

    Going on holiday so you may have to wait awhile.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2009
     

    On 2nd thoughts..........you know you remind me of a wee fox terrier with the bit between his teeth who just won't let go ! In a nutshell ( no pun intended ) the answer is pretty obvious ( to any lover of wildlife that is ) Crops don't feel pain or cry out when they have been HARVESTED but wildlife does. I don't respect your views on this subject & you certainly don't respect mine. I also have the luxury of being able to provide my family with meat ( free range of course ) from the local supermarket ;  only beef,pork & chicken mind you & NEVER the likes of deer, duck, rabbit etc. It is a shame you feel the need to kill the local wildlife to do the same. You may have the last word Travis as I am done with this & it is all becoming a bit of a bore. Anyway, I am away on holiday so enjoy the peace & quiet but I shall return lol. Cool

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2009 edited
     

    I dont understand your logic. We had the oppurtunity to let this go,but then you felt the need to come on here and start the argument again. That was your choice,now you expect me to just go away?

    On to the topic...if all your concerned about is what the animal feels, you need to lay off of hunters and focus on meat processing facilities. When I kill an animal, I know that it has lived to maturity, untouched by man. It lived a natural life the way god intended. Death occurs almost instantaneously. There is no screaming or crying like some think.The basic concept is exactly the same as harvesting a crop. You put time,effort, and money into ensuring the health and longevity of the crop, then once its time, said crop will be harvested for the purpose of your consumtion. Hunting is exactly the same.

    It blows my mind  that you think your better than me just because you eat store bought meat. Do you even know what free range means, as defined by the USDA? If the animal has access to the outside....its free range. The "outside" very well may be a 6x6 enclosure, but its still considered free range. Im amazed that someone who supposedly cares about animals, would prefer that they live in deplorable conditions, are fed supplemented food, and have no idea about the outside world. Lets see...one turkey lives in the same 6x6 area for 17 weeks, then gets electrocuted so you can have your free range turkey. The other turkey lives his life freely, roams his territory, and interacts with other turkeys, and his environment. Death occurs instantly, he feels no pain, and I am able to carry out my duty of being a steward of the land. Which sounds better? You think that as long as somebody else kills the caged animal for you, youve done no wrong.If the feelings of the animal are your main concern, then you need to get off our (hunters) backs, and focus on the people that you give  money too. I promise you that animals I hunt have a far better quality of life, from begining to end, than the animals you buy at the store.

    I dont continue this argument to offend you, I do it to try to make you understand what its all about. I wish youd open your eyes, AND your mind and think about what Im saying, instead of firing back about how Im a horrible person because I hunt. In the end, you are no better than anyone else, so get off your high horse and take a look at things from a logical perspective.

  2.  

    Travis...you took the words right out of my mouth!!....animals we harvest are living off the land....off natural stuff...off the land...they do die instantaneously...they are NOT fed steroids to amke them grow faster to get them out the door sooner than most cows should...when they are KILLED...learn about these places they meat come from...cows , pigs and etc...they are took in to a place where a blade slices their throats while people are hooking the back legs up so when the slicing is over they will be jerked upside down while still alive and they bleed to death.....AND what we harvest will never be feed another dead animal that has died of disease but ground up to save the farms money ....its mixed with food and steroids to get out of the farm quick to go on the dinner table for YOU!.....i think our way is more humain...plus our way has been the way  before we found this country!!!...so at your next Thanksgiving think about the torture that your Turkey went through in it's VERY short life as for my Turkey lived a long , very clean life!...like I said before I harvest animals that are mature..Squirrel..i respect what you belive..but you got to open your eyes!!..look at Peta!...i dont support them but they tell you about the stuff these animals go through and they show you...from ALL what happen through the whole process...not being mean by no means!....

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
     

    Open my eyes indeed !!! I have been a member of Peta for many years. I guess we have higher standards of free range living over here in the UK so your comments are unfounded on that score. 

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2009
     

    That may be...but if you'll notice,I quoted the USDA, not the UK. Apparently you didnt comprehend what I was saying. You are continually taking jabs at hunters,despite the fact that we are quite possibly the most important element in wildlife conservation and protection of habitat. Ill say it again...if your genuinely concerned about animal welfare, you need to get your facts straight and see whats going on in the real world.Hunters are NOT the people you should be worried about. You say your a member of PETA...what does the organization do for animals? Im curious.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2009
     

    I was responding to the Bloodworths Travis...........not you ! You are continually taking jabs at me even when I am not responding to you.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2009
     

    By the way...............I have replied twice now to the Bloodworths post ( not yours ) but you are the one that keeps coming back to stir it all up AGAIN. As for Peta ; go & google it & see for yourself.

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2009
     

    Well then I apologize. Seemed like you were responding to me, since you brought up the topics that I had discussed. Sine your responding to me now, Ill take another jab at you. I have done a little research on PETA, and have seen nothing beneficial to animals. The organization seems to complain and protest alot,similarly to 3 year olds...but thats about it from what Ive seen. Hunters fund habitat restoration, WMA's, and national forests...where does your money go? Useless protests?  Think about it.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2009
     

    You are coming across as a bit of a bully now Travis. No surprises there.  I am not responding any more after this so fire away. Take another shot at me why don't you. It's what you do best isn't it ?

    • CommentAuthorTravis_S
    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2009
     

    Lol wowww I love your way of debating. You start something, then when you realize that your "point" is invalid, you completely avoid the topic and any other comments relating to the debate. Obviously you will not open your eyes and see the logic behind what I say, so if you want to let this thread die...thats fine.

    • CommentAuthorSquirrel
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2009
     

    I seem to be out on a limb here with this so I have resigned. Many of you will heave a sigh of relief no doubt but I can not help how I feel towards the hunting of animals.

    Squirrel

    PS I did enjoy meeting some of you : you know who you are :)